is creating a backlash. them. it is not just a kinetic solution. as we look at this hell -- at for example, it was said that the unmanned strikes is greater sahel, this is an area where al than the what they can qaeda can put down roots beyond appreciate. they are hated on a viss the reaches of government. they have done this and it has rational level. been unattended because of the he add difficulties these countries have feeding their people. it is a different strategy -- it he said this adds to the perception of americans that has become prats of one, but al said we can fly where we want, qaeda -- and the force of she what we want because we can. islamic extremists that have preferred it islam are making general haig in also has expressed concerns that now some progress in areas that give me a real concern. that the strikes are being used that is why look at syria and at lower levels, arguably, that what is going on in that country, we cannot allow vast they are creating a backlash areas to be exported by al qaeda in these areas because it will that is undermining the credibility of government and be to our peril. >> i certainly agree with you on that, and in our testified creating new terrorists when a

neighbor or family member is hearing next week i will ask you killed in the course of the about syria and also the operations. do you agree with general iranian threat. i do not think those are mcchrystal and director hayden corporate in open session. just two final questions -- about the backlash of strikes from the targeted killings at one has to do with priories that this point? i am not talking about the .ou have said initial strikes. >> that is something that we need to be mindful of in terms of reaction, any type of u.s. in recent years paramilitary operations had consumed a lot of counter-terrorism activities resources, expertise, time, that involve the dropping of energy, and efforts at the cia. ordnance. whether it is a remotely piloted do you believe this has been at aircraft or man, we need to take the expense of traditional cia that into account, but i would not agree with those statements responsibility collection, because what we have found in analysis, all sorts? many areas is that the people are being held hostage to outcry >> there have been opportunity costs because of the dedication that in these areas and have of those resources. welcomed the work that the i would inventory our our government has done to rid them of the al qaeda cancer that resources are being dedicated

exists. against a wide variety of >> finally today, this committee strategic priorities to protect received the olc memos our country. in terms of operational collection activities worldwide, justification, labo the analysis being done, what are we doing in these other areas? that, many of us who have been yber -- are so many on the committee longer than i, have been seeking for some time, and i to have spent a large part of this morning different areas. there is an in this section to reading them. yet the obama administration encounter is press there is an within months of taking office released several olc memos counter-tion between kantor describing the legal justification for the treatment of terrorist detainees in u.s. terrorism and these other areas. >> mr. brennan, you have devoted custody. do you think it was appropriate that a different standard was a great deal of your life to applied to the release of the public service, for which i memos from the bush thank you. administration than those and you obviously understand the produced by the obama world of intelligence in a way administration? that few people do. >> i do not think there was a you have been an intelligence different standard. professional for much of your >> one was released within four

months of the obama professional life. in the last four years, you have administration taking office. held a political position at the the other had been requested for a very long -- a much longer white house. time. and i have been talking to >> i am not a lawyer. people at the cia, whom i i have come to learn of the term dui generis. respect, and one intelligence the olc memos released after the official told me that a key question for the men and women president came into office were of the cia is which john brennan released because the program was terminated. olc wiolll counsel are they going to get. are they going to get john brennan who has been the right- hand adviser a president obama opinions, and those opinions any political lighthouse, and, were looked at in a different way because of the sui generis by the nature of the position, i do not say that critically. that is the position. circumstances. >> both are essential for the where are they going to get john ability of congress to carry brennan, who was a career cia its oversight responsibilities. officer, who worked his way up in the ranks? finally, the intelligence reform and the concern is that they act and terrorist prevention act want to hear that you are going of 2004, with which you are very to be the cia's representative

familiar and which i was a co- author, requires the director of to the white house, about the white house's representative to national intelligence to the cia. recommend who the cia director ike is want to give you the opportunity today to respond to should be to the president of the united states. i am aware of general clapper, that concern. i would note that i also heard a very good comments from people the dni's letter, endorsing your with whom i talk, but i think it nomination, which is different is in accordance -- it is from his actually recommending to the president that you be important that you are wrong to chosen. to your knowledge, did general be the leader of the agency and not the white house's agent clapper recommend to the president that he be nominated for this position? >> i know for certain that he within the agency. made a recommendation, but i >> thank you, senator. would defer to general clapper to tell you what that if i were to be honored to go recommendation is. out to see eye, the cia would >> thank you. cent >> senator heinrich? get the john brennan who is either a democrat nor republican, or has ever been. the john cornyn who has a deep >> thank you for your service to

appreciation, respect, and the this country and welcome you to intelligence profession, one who the committee. and should you be confirmed, i has been fortunate to have lived would like to start by just in 25 years, a john cornyn who inviting you to visit to mexico at some point and in particular has had the great fortune to be in the white house the past four years watching an understanding sandia and los alamos national how intelligence is used in labs, because while you often do support of our national not hear about the contributions security. they make to our intelligence community, i can assure you cia would get a john cornyn view has been working national- that that support is vital to keeping our nation safe. security issues for my life, and i have a few questions, and forgive me if some of these return to some of the think you would get a john cornyn hoop have heard from other senators. understands that the value of i want to start with your intelligence, the importance of november 2007 interview with cbs this intelligence is not to tell news, where he said, "there have the president what he wants to hear, not to tell this committee what he wants to hear, to tell been a lot of information that has come out of these interrogation procedures that the policy makers, the the agency has in fact used congressional overseers what against the real hard-core terrorists. they need to hear. other intelligence officials but the intelligence committee what a lot further than that in with all its expertise has been defending the use of so-called able to uncover and understand enhanced interrogation

techniques at the time, and some about world events that still do. fundamentally affect the lives if your review of the committee of not just this generation of americans, but of future consists that these did not in generations of americans. if i had the great privilege to fact save lives, i would like to lead the cia, it would be the ask would you be as public into condemning the program as you biggest honor of my life, and i were in its defense, and, in would understand just how important and we keep that would other words, would you set the be. if i ever dishonored that record straight? >> i will do whatever possible responsibility, i cannot at to make sure that the record is straight and that i speak fully myself in the mirror. and honestly on it. i could not look my family in the mirror. i could not look you in the >> i want to return to a question that mr. udall asked face, and that is something that is important, so the proof will you. be in the pudding, and if i have would you object to, and if so, that opportunity, it would be my why, to a public release to a intention to make sure i did everything possible to live up to the trust, confidence, that this congress, this senate, and declassified version of the this presents might place in me. committee's report? >> i would give such a request >> thank you very much. for declassification every thank you, madam chairman. consideration. there is a lot of information and those volumes with a lot of >> that you very much. if there are no " for the potential consequences as far as courses, john, i would like to

its public release. associate myself with what john at the same time that we have a rockefeller said. i have sat through a number of commitment to take care to, we also have a tremendous these hearings. i do not think i have ever heard commitment to making sure that anyone more forthright or more we keep this country safe by honest or more direct. protecting its secrets. there are a lot of equities and you really did not hedge. operational activities, and it he said what you thought. i want you to know that that is has to be looked at carefully. very much appreciated. >> i would just say i agree with i actually think you are going you that sources and methods and many of the operational details to be a fine and strong leader absolutely should never be for the cia. declassified, but there is some i cannot help but say i am basic principles in that report really fully supportive of this that i think is gonna be very important for history to be able and will do everything i can to judge. i would urge you to look closely possibly to make sure this at that. committee works with you, closely and honestly. senator levin asked about waterboarding. let me follow up. we will have a classified hearing. in november to a dozen, you were i am specifically going to just warn you that i would like to -- 2007, you were asked if waterboarding with torture, and talk -- or have you respond in you said it is objecting an individual to severe pain and detail to what i perceive as a suffering, which is the classic definition of torture. difficult, the evolving i believe quite frankly is situation in north africa, now

inconsistent with american with tunisia, with libya, with values and should be prohibited. is that still your view? all these countries, and >> yes, senator, it is very >> certainly with mali, and how you they keep. the you think all agencies of plan to direct the agency to the united states government deal with this devolving should be held to interrogation momentum that is taking place in centers that are laid out in the northern africa. army field manual as currently required by executive ordr, so that will be for tuesday, and at the request of senator and you support efforts to levin, i ask unanimous consent codify this into law? to add into the record a joint statement that he and i may, on >> the fbi has its own processes april 27, 2012, and, secondly, and procedures and law that covers its activities, so i in order to have mr. brennan's wanted to do is to make sure answers to questions for the record by the time he returns appropriate attention is paid to before us in closed session, i fbi as opposed to military. ask members to the right >> i understand. questions for the record by 5:00 back in 2006, you were part of p.m. tomorrow. that is friday, february 8, so an on-line discussion with "the washington post," he suggested we have them for you as soon as at that time that the director we of the cia should have a set five-year term, like the fbi i want to thank you and your

director. the guarantee "absolute need for family for being here. i wish you well. thank you and the hearing is independence, integrity, and up to give the in the senior ranks of our intelligence community? given that you will serve at the adjourned. >> thank you. pleasure of the president, how do you maintain your independence? >> having grown up in the community for 25 years, i understand the importance and value at maintaining independence, subject to the, and integrity of the process. i know when i have sat in the white house situation room and when i have looked to the intelligence briefer, that if they were to advocate in any way a policy preference, it calls into question the independence, subject to the, and basis of that intelligence. i want them to give me the facts as is, in respect of what their leanings or preferences might be. policy makers need to do that. in order to me to be able to

maintain my integrity, as i would go to the president, secretary of state, or the national security council meeting, i need to make sure i can say it straight, get it straight, and that the policymakers determine the best course of action. >> thank you. one last question. i believe it was during that >> john brennan has the same discussion with "the washington post" he said, "i counterterrorism advisory for your years and now nominate think there is an effort background the president to be underway for the cia to adapt to the c.i.a. director. the new realities of the we're wrapping up four hours of intelligence community. the cia has resisted any of testimony. we're opening up the phone lines these changes which has been a problem. to find out about the issues it is time to move forward." what exactly did you mean and has the cia in progress? discussed and if he noub the >> i credit you and your staff for following up that interview, next c.i.a. director. because i had not read about the numbers are on your screen. that or thought about that for a while. i must say having grown up in you see the hashtag on the the agency for 25 years, i have screen is brennan. tremendous respect for that we have also posted a section on

organization. our facebook page, it is exceptionally capable, competent, by nature of its work, it also at times is facebook.com/c-span. let's go to joyce in florida on our directs line. insular and it has not interacted and into operated the caller: hi. way it needs to with the rest of the intelligence community and government. first of all, let me say that i at times that is to protect methods and the secrets it has. am very, very proud. i've been watching brennan for but given the changes in the environment, given the changes many, many years in different in the nature of our government, positions. isle a political science major cia needs to play a part in this and i'm so proud he knows large a role. now the head of cia does not sit thousand answer the questions. he was so well-informed. on top of the key intelligence community, but is part of a as an american and someone who larger community that is led by another. has learned to trust some of our my objective is to make sure our leaders but not all, that is one capabilities are leveraged and and power to responsibilities, person that i can go to bed at night and feel very comfortable the missions of the rest of the in the way he looks at things. government, the department of the homeland security is a new i'm a democrat. creation, and they need what he says, i'm not a democrat intelligence like everyone else. or republican, i truely believe when i was conveying is there was resistance at the time of that about him. the rgpa that they did not want i believe he loves this country

and there are some things he to break some of the past can't say and i respect that. practices. he's able to communicate in such a lot of that resistance is a way that a person can overcome, and cia analyses the benefit of having someone sit on understand where he's kimming top of that committee. from. i think in general, this is -- >> that is very helpful. i will yield back. he's coming from. >> that you very much, senator. i think in general this is what senator king? america needs. you want to turn on your mike? in some days i feel like i need >> thank you for your testimony and stamina to date. -- know more than some those i should tell you in an earlier hearing secretary panetta was senator who is are reading. >> that is senator feinstein and testifying before the armed services committee, and he there is another hearing on strongly endorsed your tuesday which will be nomination. i think the record church show classified. that, that secretary panetta was we go to the republican line. caller: i'm impressed with the very complementary at your quality of this candidate. capabilities and experience. i'm grateful for his education secondly, and this is not really a question, it is incredibly and there is no comparison between the quality of this man important for the cia to be as open, to be totally opens with and chuck hagel. they are in different sandboxes.

this committee. the reason is that there is no i'm very grateful for people one else watching. typically and our country, we have public -- the public is like this who we desperately need in times like this. involved, the press involved, >> we go to the independent there are a lot of people that line. this is doug, welcome to the have access to intermission to what the department of state or conversation. caller: thanks for taking my commerce is doing. call and thanks to c-span. this is a unique situation where i think the only one that had this committee and house are the only places where they are any sanity and knew the paying attention in terms of questions that were going to be separation of powers. is not just nice to have that asked. we did not get any answers to openness. them. how is the decision made? it is critically important, and i hope you subscribe to that what are the requirements? view. >> absolutely, i do. >> briefly, and i think senator the independent said we should have a court that regardless who border touched on this, going forward, there needs to be some the president is they should not discussion with the department of defense about where the cia have a unilateral way to and and the department of defense starts in terms of counter-terrorism activities, document nominate someone. operations, and i do not want to pursue that, but i think senator border weight or -- raised an

important part, because we people in this country don't cannot be duplicated a whole know about the mddaa, the set of capabilities and national defense thorgs act which allows the president to designate a person who he feels is a terrorist or supporting priorities and officers and procedures. terrorist organizations to i take you subscribe to that? >> i do agree, and look forward deprive him of life, liberty and to you in coast section 2 not be able to go in front of a looked and talk to you about the areas where the court. you can't say listen, you have the wrong person. relationship of these agencies we can be unilaterally detained. are critically important. there is no question about, for mindful of not having any type of redundant capabilities, we instance, the propaganda guy need to make sure we can leverage the capabilities in that got killed. his 16-year-old son, just turned both organizations for the good of this country. >> and the area i want to spent time on is that iran policy as 16. he went to where there was no it relates to the american citizens. there is a lot of law and real journalism was going on history involved in our system there and he wanted to find out of checks and balances. how many people wanted to be james madison said people were killed. angels we would not need a government, and if the government was run by angels, we the u.n. says it has about 2,700 would not need checks and

balances. he concluded that angels were in people are being killed. short supply, as they are today. he went out there to find out. we need checks and balances. whether or not he was the fifth amendment is clear. note deprivation of life and radicalized by his father, we liberty without due process of helped to use a drone against a law, and we are depriving americans of their life when we 17-year-old. nobody called in about that. target and in a drug attack >> thank for your thoughts. picked i understand it is under military circumstances. we will re-air the entire these are the enemy combatants. hearing for you here on c-span i would like to suggest to you at 8:00 p.m. eastern. that you consider, and madame we hear from cory on the chairman, i would like to suggest that we consider a fi democrats line. hi, cory. set-type crisis -- a fisa-type are you there? we'll go to michael in north carolina also an independent. court process where an american >> good evening. my name is mike and i would like citizen is what the targeted for to address the senator from a lethal strike, but having oregon on drilling mr. brennan. the executive being the the way he has been and i find prosecutor, judge, jury, an it totally, totally -- i can't executioner all in one is very contrary to traditions and of this country, say how -- when they take a

particularly in a situation swear that they are going to where there is time. take an oath to defend the if a soldier on a battlefield does not have time to go to united states foreign and court, if you are planning to domestic, that does not say they strike over a matter of days, weeks, or months, there is an are going to put boots on the opportunity to at least go to grounds. some outside of the executive when they make them take that oath, it doesn't matter. branch body leica fisa cc -- if they have happen to be on the like the fisa court make a case wrong side at the time when the that this citizen is an enemy chips are down, they are a combatants and at least that would be some check on the target. i'm hoping for comment. activities of the second. i have great confidence in you, host: thank you for that. and president obama, but all the senator feinstein asked a number lessons of history, it should of times of the so-called not matter who is in charge, targeting killings, these drone because we should have strikes. procedures and processes in here's what john brennan had to place that will protect us no say during one of the exchanges. matter who the people are that >> i would like to ask you about are in the particular positions. the status of the how do you react to the administration's efforts to suggestion? >> it is worthy of discussion. institutionalize rules and

procedures for the conduct of addition, judicial tradition, is drone strikes. that a court of law is used. in particular, how you see your this is very different from the role as c.i.a. director in that decisions made on the battlefield as well as actions approval process. taken against terrorists, >> as this committee knows and because none of those actions i'm sure wants to continue to are to determine pass the guilt protect certain covert action for actions they took. the decisions that are made, or activities, but let me talk to take action so we prevent a about the counterterrorism future action, to protect program and the role of c.i.a. and this effort to try to american lives. that is inherently an executive- institutionalize and ensure that we have a riggerous process as branch function to determine, and the commanders and chiefs possible. we feel that we're taking the appropriate actions at the appropriate time. the president has insisted that and executive at the responsibility to protect the any action we take will be american citizens. we have wrestled with this in terms of whether they can be a legally groumeded and thoroughly fisa-like court. be anchored in intelligence has certain types of activities -- the approval process before any but it is analogous to a court action is contemplated, going -- including those actions that

>> action we take our to take might require force. actions against individuals where we believe the my role was to help to okay intelligence base is so strong and the nature of the threat is straight this over the past four so grave and serious as well as years to ensure any actions we imminent that we have no recourse except to take this take fully conform with our law action that may involve a lethal and meet the standards that i strike. think the committee and the >> i agree, and i and the stand american people expect of us. the dilemma. i am not suggesting anything as far as taking the actions to that would limit our ability to protect the american people but take actions, a behalf of at the same time, we do american citizens. i would feel comfortable if everything we can before we have somebody other than a member of to resort to legal force. the executive said we agree the >> some response on twitter, evidence is so strong, etc., as he stated, and in the hamdi here's david who writes that brennan stonewalls in fort hood decision, sandra day o'connor shooter involved with anwar said a state of war is not a heck. of c al-awlaki. clearly he did. another tweet from anita. >> the point of due process people have miscon stheapings he needs to be taken into account. was an upstanding citizen. back to calls we go to benny who american citizens by definition

are due much greater due process is in fredics berg, virginia. by their citizenship. this is a worthwhile discussion. caller: this is outstanding and i usually don't understand these what is and a corporate balance hearings because they are so between the executive, legislative, and judicial political and bipartisan and a branches responsibilities in this area. >> i appreciate your lot of the people just consideration, and again, grandstanding back and forth. appreciate your testimony but i believe this gentleman is today, and thank you for your service to this country. one of the best qualified madam chairman, i yield back my time. persons i've heard in a hearing. >> thank you very much. we will do another quick round. i want to also talk about the i think one of the problems is secret briefings he gave those now that the drone program is so public, and one american committees. you have more leaks in the government there than you do on citizen has been caught up, the street. third, while killing americans, people did not know much about this one american citizens, so you have to defend this country call. if they do not know what he has been doing. foreign and domestic. they do not know what he is if you choose to join al qaeda, connected to. they do not know the incitement he has stirred up. you choose to join al qaeda to i wonder if you could tell us a hurt americans you should be put little bit about mr. awlaki and

away. what he had been doing. thank you. >> steve is an independent >> i am not going to talk about caller in michigan. >> i want to repeat what the any particular operation or last gentleman said. i'm a junkie on these things. responsibility for anything whenever. >> that is the problem. this hearing demonstrated the when people hear american highest kinds of ways our citizens, they think somebody who is an upstanding, and this government should work. the questions were on point, there's was little man was not standing by a grandstanding. there was no politicking that i longshot. maybe you cannot discuss it could see. people did have their points here, but i have read enough to compared to the haguele hearings know that he was a real problem. last week. this was the highest and i'm afraid the ones for hagel had to >> before he died he was intimately involved in do with the quality of the activities that were designed to candidates, particularly, mr. kill innocent men, women, and brennan. >> given the fact that was children, and mostly americans. he was not just a propagandist. sensitive information. do you feel like you learned a he was in fact part of the lot from the hearing? operational effort that is known caller: yes, i guess i learned as al qaeda in the arabian more about brennan than i knew. he appears to be, at least by peninsula and hackie responsibilities in that regard. reputation in the way they >> can i ask some questions talked about him that he's not

going to be so secretive as some about him? did he have a connection to of the past c.i.a. directors abdul muttalab who intended to have been. i'm sure there are things he committed to that he went be explode a device over detroit? able to do. >> he spent time in the c.i.a. >> yes, he did. >> could you tell us what and he was former executive deputy director from 2001-2003. condition it was? >> i would prefer not to at this bill is on the republican line. time. >> did he have a connection to bill, hello. caller: how are you? the fort hood attack? >> al qaeda in the arabian >> fine, thanks. caller: good. i was calling in reference to peninsula as a variety of means of communicating and inciting the senator from oregon here. calling upon certain questions individuals, whether that be websites, emails, or other types to brennan. of things. he has had such a great, great there are a number of occasions where individuals has been in touch with other individuals. background in his service to senator, i will not address the america. specifics of these, but -- i'm embarrassed that we have to go through all of this but for >> i will ask you a couple him, i appreciate the questions. did shazzad, who pled guilty to

condolences as far as john brennan being accepted at the c.i.a. district perp but back to the commission -- the senators the times square bombing of that question. attempt, tell that he was i have questions for them too. inspired by al-awlaki? >> yes. i'm embarrassed because he is >> last october, awlaki, if he such -- he has served this country in a magnificent way. had a role in supervising aqap nobody can doubt that. this is a process that we have to go through and i'm all for by detonating explosive,, as a it. as far as the positive, yes, this is a man who is very highly matter of fact coming inside a computer printer cartridge? qualified. >> he was involved in overseeing he is more qualified than anyone else. it is great that c-span put a number of these activities, yes, there was a relationship. >> was a tree they were so together this kind of thing and letting americans see what you concealed that the first attempt find them?d not put on here. i was impressed with c-span's coverage of this. without c-span i would not be >> yes the method used was one able to make choice and i appreciate you guys coverage of

of the best we had ever encountered. >> so mr. awlaki is by not an all of this. and you make america rocks and american citizen by where anyone rolls and we all honor that. this is a process that we have to go through. it has to be frustrating for a in america would be proud? lot of people. >> he was part of al qaeda and it was his determination to kill the guy is beyond acceptable for the job. americans on behalf of al qaeda. >> we'll let you go there, bill. >> thank you. thank for watching. is it true that in the last four one of our followers on twitter years the fbi has arrested 100 who tweets that at the hearing people, either planning, the senator sees worried about conspiring, or trying to commit a terrorist attack on this not being able to torture nation? >> yes, they have arrested a lot people. here's a clip where they ask of people. >> that is because of good, about the interrogation techniques. sound intelligence. i think what people forget is >> well, it looks like we had a problem with that video. that they will kill us if they tom is a democrat in burbank, can and it is extraordinarily california. tom, hello, you're next on the difficult if you cannot get into air. where they were hiding. go ahead.

caller: good afternoon. someone who had top secret would it have been possible to awlakirested hav mr. clearance in the past i have to say some of the more interesting where he was in the yemen? subtext was eleven -- levin >> we work very closely with about the letter about the iraqi yemenis to see if we can arrest war, the comments that wyden in vigils. if we can, we want to do that made about what needs to be because it is valuable for us. any actions taken in concert revealed. with the yemeni government are and the senator saying she had done in terms of any types of been lied to over all of these strikes we might engage there years. with them, are done only because it the most interesting fact is we do not have the ability to he was asked if he would reveal bring those individuals into custody. >> thank you. to the people and declassify to my time is up. the public all the foreign senator chambliss? countries that we've had a hand >> thanks, adam chair. in removing someone with in 2002 what was your knowledge of interrogation videotapes warfare. about zabeda, and did you see he said they would look into that. historically would include, any information about a review

of them in 2002? chile, guatemala, it would >> i do not have their recollection of that, senator. include the kinds of of the i think that were written in a >> of the tapes or that request? book as a former agency director >> at the time in 2002, i did in south america. i'm curious how far and deep they will go. not know what my involvement or i went into this and i was able to be home and watch the entire knowledge was at the time. i believe i was aware of the hearings. i realize listening to both briefings being taped. republican and democratic senators, the reality is it is >> it should be no surprise that not fair to keep mr. brennan's many members have been dissatisfied with the confirmation hostage to a administration's corp. on the benghazi inquiries c. disagreement between the thedges senator graham ast director committee and the white house, either this current one or past clapper if he was aware of the white houses. i will wait to see what more attacks in the summer of 2012 comes out and what other people and asked if he had informed have to say. thank you to c-span. the president about those attacks. that seemed like a reasonable hearing the hearing without talking heads, with no other network, someone trying to tell question, and dni said we would me what i just heard when i know what i just head.

you continue to be a valuable be given an answer. input and valueable service to when we got an answer back from the country and democracy and the dni's of us, there was a the understanding of the difficult things we're facing in this world today. notation next to this particular thank you again. question that senator graham >> the hearing went about three and half hours. asked, and here is what it said -- per nss, no response it was interrupted by code pink protesters on the floor of the hearing and senator feinstein required. mr. brennan, that is your shop. finally clearing the chamber out. we'll give you a chance to see do you have any knowledge about it again at 8:00 p.m. eastern. let's check facebook. why senator graham's question was not to be answered? >> there is a longstanding sheryl says love or hate him one cannot deny that john brennan tradition understanding of knows his stuff. respecting the executive let's hear from luck buck, privilege that exists in the presidency in terms of what texas. information is provided to the >> thank you for taking my call. i listened to hagel and president or advice, counsel, to brennan's testimony. him. being from the c.i.a. community i would suspect that that question gets into this issue when i was in vietnam, both of of the executive privilege which i think again has been a long these gentleman had

standing tradition. >> are you sure that is the distinguished themselves. answer or to you think? i have to fols my people in >> i do not understand, because texas -- apologize to my people that will not be a request coming to me. >> i understand, so my direction in texas. this committee was professional. to you, at what i ask you, is the last one was not. that you review that. thank you. we will get you the and >> some of the video you're -- we will get youppi seeing earlier of those protesters being evicted from the hearing. one more call from michigan on the republican line. if necessary., efficient ca caller: my uncle knew that man. he wasn't very fond of him. >> john brennan? >> yes. one question i would like to hear him answer is why he alice told us it was detainee declared fort hood workplace information that was key to violence knowing he would rob them finding the courier and bin the soldiers of their right for a purple heart when they got laden. were you briefed by any of the injured there. it is beyond me. analysts who track down bin laden? they also don't inherit the >> before the operation? benefits they would have gotten but yes. >> yes, absolutely. with the purple heart. >> is that the information given

to you, that it came from he called it workplace violence interrogation of detainees on while america held its jaws whom eip's had been used? open. and o -- obama reports back to >> i cannot recall. they talked about the chain of him. >> on this workplace decision you said that it because collection that took place decision that brennan made? related to the information coming from the detainees. caller: brennan and obama together. >> do you agree with secretary >> thank you for checking in. you can take a look on facebook panetta's comments? >> senator, looking at this and the hashtag is brennan. we're going to give you a chance to see the entire hearing at document from ssci, i do not 8:00 p.m. we're going to take you to know what the facts are or the president obama speaking to tree is. democrats in leesburg, virginia. i really need to look at that we're getting a preview to the carefully and see what cia's state of the union for next week he talked about gun control and response is. the report called into question whether any information was immigration. it is about 20 minutes. unique. >> fair and up.

hawk secretary comment's are in [cheers and applause] >> thank you. direct -- fired up? you told me a couple days ago when we met that the study was not objective, and it was a let me just say to all of the prosecutor's brief. written with an eye toward leaders gathered here today, finding problems. you went on to say your because we are here as leaders withholding judgment until you for the 310 million americans read the response. who cannot be in washington my understanding is from what he every day to cast votes, to said, that is what you are going change this country for the to do. suppose the cia takes a better. they have asked us, they have position and finds that the given us the privilege to do conclusions are wrong. i know john cornyn well enough that for them. to note that you are quick to stand up and say what is on your we're hear, minds focused, mind and what ever you conclude. sleeves rolled up, because we i am not want to ask you for know we have work to do. response to that, but i know will give us your thoughts we know we need to have a leader

of this country who is ready to and opinions about cia's get to work. my friends, i don't think there response to it and how we move forward with this. is any doubt in november, the >> i will do that. american people decided they >> thank you very much. knew who they wanted to be their leader for the next four years. , senator wyden. [cheers and applause] we are very pleased that today -- i mean senator rockefeller. we convey a message to our and chair.u, president, barack obama that we are ready to work. i was does make a comment to the we see what it means to work. chair, mr. brennan, that i have under the leadership of our been through a whole lot of leader and then speaker nancy confirmation hearings in 28 pelosi we work with president years here, including quite a few cia directors. obama to make sure we turn -- we turn an economy that was i quite honestly do not recall hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a anybody who is more forthright, month. we have turned it into a economy more direct, more accommodating that has created 6 million jobs over the last three years. under the leadership of

without violating who you are, president obama and our leader more open to the possibility of nancy pelosi, we have helped 105 million americans who no longer working with this committee in a way that will do two things -- have to fear if their child one, that will give the folks contracts diabetes or in an accident that they will run out at cia who probably constantly worry about what is the next of insurance before that child awful thing that we are on to say about them, but that is not is ready to go back to living a our intention because we are regular life. under this president, we told into the business of problem solving, and if we have a hundreds of thousands of young 26,000-pasting, it is not fun americans that they can dream for us if we are trying to solve a problem. was and no longer be separated from their families because they i have a feeling you understand that, you have a feeling that came through no fault of their you feel the cia, if they felt own to this country without immigration documents. so, my fellow americans and they were working in -- with fellow democrats, are we ready some contention with the to tell our president, barack oversight committee in the senate, but that the senate was obama, that we're ready to work? involved, was informed, are we ready to tell our interested, that this would be president that we're ready to something they would welcome. lead with him and take on the that there are a lot of people major challenges? over at the cia who may be because i remember what a good

friend and neighbor of mine always said to his children. stuck in that midlife he used to tell his daughter crisis, etc., who are looking when his daughter and my for an open, fresh, a strong daughter were playing t-ball and leader. i happen to think you are that then little league ball. leader. i have felt that since our conversation. vanessa, wait until that young i felt that from before our pitcher throws the ball wait conversation. and we have not had our secret outside the plate and take the first base after you walk or you meeting yet, so -- i am sure i can be a hitter. am not going to change my mind. you can try to smack that ball. i think you have done an if you don't always hit it, extraordinary job of patience, don't worry. if you're a hitter, you will success -- succeed. courtesy, weston, and the only i think we're ready to tell question you could not answer america that the house of that i am aware of is who was it that took notes on the meeting representatives are full of that you had 20 years ago. leaders that are ready to be but i find it in my heart to hitters. [cheers and applause] we know that on our team, on forgive you for that. america's team, we got the best to me, i think you are a cleanup hitter in the world and terrific leader, and i will look it is with great pride that i

forward to tuesday, i thank you introduce you to the captain of tarp the guy for the job and the america's team, the person the only guy for the job. who will help us hit out of the and, senator, for this very kind park when it comes to gun words, and i have not lived up safety. .t. itm yet, the person who will score the points we need when we have a broken immigration system to one that will work for all is a daunting task to go to cia. americans. and we have a leader that will help put america back to work. i want every member of this give a warm welcome to the committee to be defender of the president of the united states men and women of the cia, and i barack obama. see it as my obligation to [cheers and applause] represent them to you on their behalf, so when times get tough and when people are going to be criticizing the crist cia, i have all of you to say you knew >> thank you. about what the cia were doing, thank you. and you will defend them. thank you, everybody. have a seat. >> thank you. have a seat. thank you for that very gracious senator burr? >> i will be brief because i

introduction and you're outstanding leadership. notice you are on your fourth let me begin by saying that i glass of water and i do not want to be accused of waterboarding you. [laughter] could not be happier that one of with the exception of our request for the presidential daily briefs around the time of my most important friends and partners is still leading our benghazi, which there was democrats in the house of executive privilege claim, the representatives. you know of any, other claim of i love nancy pelosi. give her a big round of applause the state of privilege on the documents that this committee is waiting on now? >> i know there are requests for . emails that might have taken [cheers and applause] i love nancy pelosi. place between the intelligence community and the white house, and so there are a number of elements that i think people are also, she just generates looking at. >> but none that existed good-looking grand babies. they are so handsome and sharp, privilege have been claymont? >> i am not a position to say and beautiful. that, and i would defer to those to hoyer and jim as well as individuals, the white house counsel, to make those determinations about what they want to -- >> they have not testified not javier, thank you for the great

work that you guys are doing producing those documents on its each afternoon day. to steve israel who worked eight of privilege. if they are brought to claim it, they need to clean it quick. tirelessly to bring on 49 new on january 13 of this year, outstanding members of this president obama signed into law caucus. the 2013 intelligence [cheers and applause] authorization act which requires i am looking forward to spending notification of any disclosure time with all 49 of you. of national intelligence. we have not received any notification of authorized hopefully we'll see you at the disclosures. have there been any authorized white house and at various disclosures, to your knowledge? >> since you have not received any notification, there have not events but i know you came here been. , which consider the information to get something done. reported about the cameras and i look forward to working with you every single day to do what playback an authorized is right by the people who sent disclosure? us here. >> i do not know which piece i changed the format here. you're talking about. originally the way this is there has many of the discussion in the media and in the scheduled, i'm was going to talk newspapers about this. and shake some hands and i i do not know specifically about thought since this is not a shy any classified information. bunch. the fact that the administration it might make sense for me to

may be going through a process to institutionalize, guess take some questions and advice, rigorous as possible our i'm sure you guys have for me. processes and procedures in an what i'm going to do is make a of itself is not a classified issue. few points a the top and what i those details that are would like is maybe somebody can classified, i do not know of any come up here and you can call on that came out in some of those reports. folks and we'll spend a little >> if there are classified time with q&a before i have a information that is out there, and it was not authorized, was chance to say hello to everybody. there a crime report filed i want to keep my remark short relative to the play book? because i made a pretty long >> presumably there was, speech a couple weeks ago. i'm about to make another one senator. next week and i don't want you those decisions as far as initiating investigations are guy tired of me. done by those agencies that have but, obviously, i'm deeply stuart ship of that information. in discussions with the department of justice, to make a grateful to be re-elected and determination whether or not unlike of the fact that maybe i'm humbled by the support that some many people have access to i received from all across the it, how they can proceed with country. criminal investigations. >> as we prepare for the closed [cheers and applause] hearing on monday, -- on tuesday and i said at the breakfast this

-- is a -- i will ask you today morning and i was telling the that you be prepared to provide truth, i general am humbled. for the committee any specific discussions that you have where the longer you're in this job you are authorized to reveal the more humble you get. classified information or to you recognize your own talk about information on imperfections and you try to covert action, not something i would like to do today. make it up with effort and hard the answer may be zero. work. those gaps in your personality if there are things tuesday, it would be an opportunity to provide. that was a question from a pre- or your intelligence become so hearing question that was on an apparent to everybody on "the answer. my last question is i am still day lis news" every day. not clear on whether you think as important it is to be humble the information from cia by the privilege of this office interrogations save lives. and the privilege of serving in have you ever made a representation to a court, the congress, even if it is including a fisa court, but the important not to read too much type and importance of information learned from and in full -- learn from detainees? into any particular political victory. this country is big, diverse, >> the first question, if i

and we don't have a mon notly on believe there has that wisdom. we need to remember that. information if-- despite all of those things, it >> whether i was clear. is important for us to feel confident and bold about the all i am not clear at this time because i read a report that calls into question a lot of values we care about and what we information that i was provided earlier on. stand for. i try to do that in any when i was in the government as inauguration speech and i'm hoping we do that over the next four years. the head of national counter- terrorism center, i know that i when i think about what means to had signed out a number of be a democrat, in this day and affirmations related to the age, i start with the basic continuation of certain programs based on the analysis proposition that we're all created equal. and intelligence that was we're all endowed by our creator available. i do not know exactly what it with certain rights. was at the time, but we can look at that. and my governing philosophy and but the committee can assume that you had faith -- if you court, youlaim to lefcoura my interest in public service grows out how we make that union

had faith in the documents and more perfect for people day in in the information that was and day out. that starts with an economy that supplied you to make that works for everybody. declaration? , absolutely. if i made such affirmation, i throughout many campaigns we talked about this bedrock notion would have faith that the information provided was an that our economy succeeds and accurate representation. >> thank you very much. our economy gross when everybody >> thank you senator the very much. >> that you, senator. says getting a fair shot and everybody is getting a fair we have talked for several hours now about the question of shake. we have an economy in which targeted killings of americans, and you have heard it from a we're growing a vibrant middle number of senators. i would like to get your class, that it gross from the reaction on one point in particular. middle out, not from the top that is this question, down. over the next four years as i particularly in the concept you have given, that you have tried work with this caucus and every caucus, the question i will ask to focus on areas where the evidence is substantial, the myself on every item, every threat is imminent, where there issue is this helping to make is a particularly persuasive case, that the targeted killing sure that everybody has a fair shot and everybody is doing of americans is warranted. in that kind of case, the you their fair share and everybody is plague by the same rules. i believe that is a growth believe that the president should provide an individual

american with the opportunity to agenda, not just an equity surrender before killing them? >> i have not spoken about any agenda pap. that is when we have grown fast. specific operations -- >> i am talking about the that means what you will hear concept because you talk about the concept. from me next week, i'm going to imminent threats, serious talk about making sure that evidence, grave concern, and we're focused on job creation certainly words that strike, here in the united states of according to me, and that is why america. [cheers and applause] i would be interested in your it means we're focused on thoughts weather in those kinds education and that every young of instances the president ought person is equiped with the to give, should give, individual skills they need to compete in the 21st century. americans the opportunity to surrender. it means that we got an energy >> that's use the example of al agenda that can make us less qaeda, because if an american depent on foreign oil but we're were to join al qaeda, we have said, openly, repeatedly, that also cultivating clean energy strategy that will maintain our we are at war with al qaeda. leadership well into the future. we have set out kind that is trying to kill americans, and it means that we're going to talk about, yes, deficits and that we will do everything possible to protect the lives of american citizens from these taxes and sequesters and murderous attacks. we have signaled this world potential government shutdowns,

wide. we repeatedly have said it debt ceiling, we'll talk about openly. any american he joins al qaeda that stuff. will know full well that they but we'll talk about it from the perspective on how we're making have joined an authorization that is at war with the united sure someone works hard in this states and has killed thousands country. a cop, teacher, a construction upon thousands of individuals, many of of whom were americans. worker, or a reception worker, in american who did that should know well that they in fact are they can make it if they work part of an enemy against us and hard. their kids can make it and dream that the united states will do bigger dreams than they have everything possible to destroy achieved. that enemy to save american obviously, a lot of what we'll lives. >> and i certainly, and i said be working on over the next few weeks is going to be on how do this at the very beginning, i we deal with this sequester certainly want to be part of that effort to fight al qaeda on issue. i want to make this quick point. i had a press conference this all of these key fronts. week in which i reiterated that i just want to have some answers, and a i will give you i'm prepared, eager, and ang another chance, whether you think the president should give shouse that ends this government an individual american by crisis that every two week or fortunately to surrender? every two months or every six i a think senator king talked and i commend o,

months we are threatening this hard recovery, are finally you for saying you are open to housing is picking up and real hearing about that. estate is doing better and this is something that can be set in motion in a unemployment numbers are still too high. we're geing job growth and straightforward way as a general manufacturing is doing well and principle, and i am not talking we continue to have these about any one individual, and you have answered the question, self-inflicted crisis here in and i will not go any further, washington where suddenly unless you want to add anything someone taps the brakes. what i said this week was i want to it. the other point i would say is we have covered a lot of ground to do something big to provide today, and as far as i'm certainty to american families. concerned, we have got a lot of that means a balanced package ground still to cover. i have made it clear that we have got to see any and all of that will reduce our long-term those legal opinions, once that deficit and debt but that still a bipartisan group of senators allows us to invest in those asked for, before the vote at things that we need to grow right now. your credit you said you would [cheers and applause] that is also a deficit reduction take the message back to the white house. because what it really goes to, agenda that is growing faster. mr. brennan, is this question of in other words to have a

balanced package that means we checks and balances. have done a lot of cuts, we've and we probably did not use that done some revenue now. word and off this afternoon, because i think that is really so the rest of the way moving forward we can do some what this is all about. a constitution gives the additional reforms and make our health care programs work president the significant power to protect our country, and better. dangerous times, unfettered we can cut out programs we don't power. it is power that is balanced need. it also means we have to be able through this special system that to close some tax loopholes that ensures a congressional oversight, and that is why these the average american cannot take advantage of, raise the revenue questions that i and others at to do the job that allows us to and try to get at in terms of continue to grow. congressional oversight, being able to get all of the opinions that are relevant to the legal the reason this is relevant analysis for targeting because i gather, i haven't americans, and then to learn more about how you are going to gotten this from first-hand bring the public into the sours -- sources but our friends discussion. certainly you have been patient on the other side of the aisle this afternoon, and i want you to know we have covered a lot of is we're concerned about the sequester. we recognize that cutting the crap, but i think we have a lot to go, -- we have covered a lot

federal spending with a meat ax of ground, but i think we have a opposed to with a scalpel will lot to go. >> any member of al qaeda, a damage our national security, u.s. citizen or not, needs to our educational service, we'll know they have the ability to have kids getting kicked off of surrender anytime, anywhere throughout the world, and they head-start and people who have can do so before their disabled kids have less help. organization is to strike. they recognize that the we will destroy that sequester is a bad idea but what organization, and u.s. citizens they suggested is the only way can surrender any time. to replace it is for us to cut >> just on that point, i do not social security, cut medicare, take a back seat to anybody in terms of citing al qaeda. and not close a single loophole, i asked you a different not raise any additional revenue question, and on the question of from the wealthiest americans or what kind of evidence ought to corporations who have a lot of be applied, whether there ought lawyers and accountants and are to be geographic limits, the able to maneuver and manage and question of whether an individual should be allowed to work the system. surrender. i have to tell you that is an for example, there is a question of whether the obligation argument they want to have changes, a valid target has not before the court of public opinion, that is an argument i'm been publicly reported, so there willing to engage in.

[cheers and applause] i believe that the american are issues here, and i think we people understand -- i believe are going to have to continue discussions,, and, madam, i that the american people understand that yes, we need to reduce the deficit but it should round.for the spextra not be on the backs of the seniors or the on the backs of the young people who are trying >> senator coats. to get a college education, it should not be on the backs of >> i think it may be better held the parent who is are trying to give their kids a better start in life. we all have to participate. for further discussion last -- it is important that we make sure we have a strong national next week in the classified room, but this whole idea of defense. we need to reduce our spending leaks, nothing upsets me more in in a smart way. we should be willing to ask this committee, and we have had those of us who are luckiest in a lot of these in the last few society to close a few loopholes years, to see something that was discussed in classified areas, in deductions that the average american doesn't get. is that the choice that we got, i promise you we can win that written up the next day in the debate because we're on the right side of this argument. newspapers or on the part of the media, and it drives some of us i expect that you guys will be crazy. it does me, anyway. with me on that. so maybe i am paranoid about all [cheers and applause]

this and so forth. last point i will make. i cannot totally get my hands obviously, economic growth is a around this aqap situation which priority but making sure that we're opening up opportunity for everybody is also important. we discussed earlier, but i will that's why immigration reform is defer that until tuesday so we so critical. can discuss in more detail. that may just ask you one [cheers and applause] question here. i said this is going to be a top you said -- i do not have the priority and an early priority date -- the al qaeda core has of my administration. i'm heartened to she republicans and democrats starting to be in been dissipated. a serious conversation about getting this done. now is the time. i recognize that the politics we see this thing metastasizing aren't always easy, there are now across northern africa and regional variations. other parts. i understand in some places this what is your latest assessment may end up being a tough issue. of al qaeda in terms of its but what i also know is that control and operation of these part of your strength is our smaller efforts that are popping up in different parts of the youth and our history of attracting talent from all

middle east and north africa? warned the global. >> in the past i think the core -- around the globe. i've seen that talent from those who want to serve in the military, want to get an engineering degree, want to help asserted eight member of the build this country, want to influence over the franchises. start a business. i want to make sure that it depends on our definition of american future is secured. the core and our ability to disrupt communication between i'm going to be pushing hard to them. get it done early. aqap, other elements, have [cheers and applause] we're also going to make sure we developed as a result of the keep the american people safe local environment. which means that we're going to they are unique in to us unto continue to work as we draw down themselves. our troops in afghanistan to go we need to make sure that we are able to work with the after those who would attack governments and intelligenc america. and we've got to be mindful service is so we can put about steps we can take to end pressure on them. and number of them have local the cycle of gun violence in agendas, and some of them have a this country and we should do so collection is as international agendas. aqap in yemen as a effort recognizing that, again, there underway to bring that government down, and the

are regional differences. government has done a great job. we should respect those. there are other elements, guns mean something different from someone who grew up in a narcotics smugglers, human traffickers, they involve farm, somebody who grew up in an inner city. kidnappings and ransoms, and are there are different realities involved in terrorist attacks. and we have to respect them. we need to take into account what the informant is, who we but what we know is that can work with, how to put pressure on them, but any majority of gun owners know that element associated with out 100 or 1,000 more of our carter has as part of its agenda death and destruction. children are shot or killed in a i agree but we need to do is be senseless fashion. mindful of this metastasis asian there are common sense steps we of the al qaeda cancer. can take to build a consensus >> in relationship to some kind around -- we cannot shy away of centralized control over all these things and having said from taking those steps. that the corps is decimated, it bottom library is, people we have a lot of work -- bottom really varies. we see the al qaeda core exerting control over these elements. there is a lot of independence line is, we have a lot of work of effort come autonomous efforts that are underway, and i to do. it won't be simple, there will be frustrations. will be happy to talk and concession about the there will be times where you

relationships that exist between al qaeda cores. guys are mad at me. i will occasionly read about it. >> thank you very much, senator. senator collins. but, as long as we keep in mind >> thank you, madam chairman. why we came here in the first place. as long as we think back to mr. brennan, i want to follow up on the point that senator coats whatever inspired each of us to say maybe i can give something just race, because if you look at a map, back in 2001, you back. maybe i can make a difference. maybe my purpose here on earth would see that al qaeda was is to not just think about what mainly in afghanistan and pakistan. is in it for me but what is in if you look at a map to day, you it for the broader community, for my neighborhood, for my would see al qaeda in all sorts of countries. that is not to say that there state, for my cune. were not cells and other we need to keep that in mind every day, i have no doubt that countries back in 2001, but it we will continue our raises the question in my mind extraordinary progress that of whether, even though we have we've made already. as a by-product of doing that been successful in taking out good work and keeping that some of the core of al qaeda and focus, i would expect that nancy pelosi will be speaker again

some high-level leaders, whether pretty soon. thank you very much, everybody. our strategy is working. god bless you. [cheers and applause] if the cancer of al qaeda it is metastasizing, do we need a new treatment? >> what we have tried to do over the past decade and longer is to be able to treat this real cancer in a number of ways. sometimes it takes lethal force, military might, working >> we're going to ask -- with our partners in a variety of ways, addressing some of the >> john brennan is president infrastructural institutional and other disease that exist in obama's counterterrorism these countries that al qaeda advisory and has a 25 year takes advantage of. career with the c.i.a. if you look at the geographic he's been nominated by the map from south asia the middle east and north africa, there has president to head that agency. been tremendous political his hearing was today and we'll turbulence in that area over the show it to you tonight beginning past decade, and particularly in at 8:00 p.m. eastern. the last couple years. there are a lot of uncovered on our next "washington journal" spaces that outcry has taken we'll talk about al ja zee a -- advantage of. we have made progress in some areas. somalia is in fact a good

example of a place where we have worked with neighboring countries, local government, jazeera. with a multilateral element in supress to try to sp we'll discuss a report that concludes that on ranch that americans die sooner and have higher rates of disease than people in other countries. dr. steven wolf on human needs. "washington journal" begins tomorrow and every day at 7:00 eastern. host: joining us on the "washington journal" is the senator, republican from arizona just elected to his first term. congratulations. i don't know if you heard our conversation about immigration. your group, have you started forming your bipartisan group

efforts into legislation yet when it comes to immigration? guest: that is happening this month. that is the hard part to put the principles in the legislation. some items have been done before and you can use it as a template. these principles contain new things too. that's the difficult part, obviously. i think that everybody is working in good faith and we stand a far better chance of getting it now than we have before. host: when you say your principles continue new thing, such as? guest: as the path to citizenship. the act that i introduced where someone who is here and they want to advance their status and you have to pay back taxes. we had a touchback provision, go back to your home country and register, this is not here but this still requires back tax, fine, way to get back in the

back of the line. for those who say it is an amnesty, that is not the probably definition of an amnesty that will is a pardon of a breach of law. this is not a pardon. this is no cutting in line that is what defines amnesty to me. host: what you have read about the president's proposal, is there anything in there that is a non-starter? guest: there are things that the president left out. you mentioned some of the new thing tons other side is border security. we've got to ensure -- people who are living on the border in particular and i'm in touch with the ranchers that hold property there. there is one rancher who had 29 incursions across his property. that is trucks coming across the border with drugs since may.

for those who say the border is secure, not by a proper definition. we need to do work so the language to make sure individual -- property holders at the border and other community leaders have some input as to what constitutes a secure border. that is important and the president left that out as he did the temporary worker program on the backside. that has to be in the legislation as well. host: are they the same as in indiana or minnesota, or north dakota? guest: i would say arizona has those problems and then sum because we're a border state. if you're on the border and you hold property there, if you are in the communities along the border you face issues that people in indiana that don't. there are additional issues as

well. ing >> host: you were quoted as saying senator rubio is key. why? guest: he has a perspective that others don't. he's from florida, he's hispanic , he's a very articulate voice on this subject and one that can unify republicans around this. i don't think there is anyone in the party that speaks to opportunity and inclusiveness like rubio does. you see him go out to conservative media and talk about immigration in ways that the rest of us can't. so he's done a great job and he's going to be a lynch pen in this effort. host: now that you moved to tore side of the capitol. how do you read the house when it comes to immigration?

guest: there's a lot of people who still don't want to deal with this issue, i'm not going to deny that. at least everybody wants to see it in the rearview mirror. if we can get it done it will help. i'm not under any illusion that on the political side that if we do this as republicans 50% of the hispanic vote will come our way. that won't be the case for a while. but we should do this for policy reasons and good politics will follow there after. i think this is just an important thing to do. i think it has been a while overdue. host: who are the members of your group working on immigration? guest: there are the schumer, and dick durbin, myself, john mccain, marco rube bee yo.

-- rubio. host: have you gotten more that wants to join your effort at this point? guest: not people who want to join but they are sympathetic about what we're doing and i think if they see the legislation they will come on board. once they see what is required for someone to advance their status to get on a path to citizenship they will say if this works with the rule of law. it is something that is humane, realistic, and something that we just have to do. host: do you have people on the house side working with you? guest: there is a group working on their own for a while, a bipartisan group. it is people like biden, many others have been involved in

this effort. they are getting closer, i think, to something like the senate is doing and that certainly helps. host: senator from arizona is our guest. we have our phone lines up if you would like to dial in. we have set aside our fourth line for illegal immigrants. we would like to hear your story and we're going to begin with a caller on that line. alex from germantown, maryland. caller: i'm not illegal myself but my mother is. she came here to put me through college and to raise our living status and help our family back home to come out of poverty. she had a difficult time to try to legalize her status. it has been dragging out for 10 years. she has applied, spent a lot of money for lawyers and

application fees and paperwork is not cheap. she's been denied. she had to appear, reapply, and basically, she's done everything she can. on my side, i'm a student on a student visa. i kept my visa for the last 10 years and it has not been an easy year for me either. what i found out in my own experience is the people who can get in line and enter the process, at least from where i come from, people already have high living standards and don't need it. in many cases they don't want it. the problem we're having is the people who really need to come here, the people who will benefit the most from legal immigration are being denied. the people who do have the opportunity they don't, in many

cases, they don't want it. i talk to people who have a green card they come here every two years for a week or two so they don't lose the green card. they don't like living here because the culture shock is tremendous. it is not easy to come here to a country where people speak a different language and have different backgrounds. it is so different. people who come here, who are willing to come here are having a difficult time living at home and they escape violence or they try to escape poverty. host: thanks for sharing your story. what would you like to say to that caler? guest: alex brings up point that has been made recently. the common notion is that everyone here wants to become a citizen. that is not the case. in the case of -- take one

country, mexico. i think only 36% of those offered a path to citizenship take it. after the 1986 amnesty when that path was made easy under this new package that we're talking about now. so a lot of people don't want to become citizens but for those who do, i think there should be a pathway for them where they are not cutting in line but one they can come out of the shadows without fear on deportation or without fear on being turned away for work. that is what we're after here. host: from florida, the republican line. caller: actually, i'm an independent. i used to be a resident of tucson. i'm contrasting him between the

gentleman you had earlier. you say path immigration but it is called naturalization. you people have a way, how be it how long it takes to become americans. you don't a right to become an american. we should be selective on who we bring in. the other calls and the other guests comments where he is trying to con flight people saying we don't like illegal and we don't like illegals is stupid. i expect it out of him but i'm kind of disappointing that you are, especially going on with rubio. he has voted if the re-authorization of the patriot act. i was not impressed with him. host: i think we got your point. let's get a response from the senator. guest: with regards of

naturalization, there are some who think people who come here and have broke an law to get here by crossing the border should never be on the that path to citizenship. i should point out that under current law people who are here illegally can go home and wait 10 years and then get on a path to citizenship. what we're saying is if you're here illegally and you want to be a path to be a citizen, get out of shadows and get a status that allows you work but you to pay a fine and just to get a green card, under this package, not for citizenship. then you will wait until everyone who is currently in the line to go in the line. there is some value that if someone is going to be here 20, 30 years i want them to have the prospect of becoming a citizen.

that is good, not a bad thing. i think we differ there. host: where do state rights fits in this immigration debate? guest: arizona has been extremely frustrated, lawmakers there and community leaders, and everybody there with the slow pace of the reform with the federal law. arizona has tried to put forward their own laws to enforce federal law. it is difficult. the border, obviously is controlled by the federal government as most labor laws. so there is a limit on what the state can do and i think arizona is pressed up against that limit. that's why we're trying to get the legislation through to help states like arizona as. host: our next caller is from jacksonville. ask your question or make your

statement. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just want to state that basically i'm speaking for the hispanic community. i want to state that we have made a huge contribution to the economy and the culture of the united states. we are not a threat. we come here goals and dromes and we work and we pave the way for our children and our children's children so they can see what we were not able to achieve in the other country. we come here just like every immigrant that chirmse with hope. we -- comes here with hope. it seems to many americans that

is what we appear to be. host: are you citizen or you illegal? caller: i am a citizen and my parents, when my parents came to this country in the 1950's it was a different ball game. they got their green card and with them, all of their children got their green card at the same time. after completing the process which was five years and meeting all the requirements we became -- we all became citizens. well, the republicans want to win elections, i have news for you. it has to be a change of heart. as senator mccain election, election, election. that is the wrong statement to say. if any immigrant says that's all they care, it is not going change the future.

it has to be a change of heart. host: all right, le get a response. guest: i love that you say senator john mccain because he has been working long before this election, he's been trying to get immigration reform through. those who come here and wanting the best for they families. people ask what brought me to this table and why am i working on this? i'm from arizona, this is important to our state. i grew up on a ranch and a farm in northern arizona. i worked alongside the mexican my grint labor there. i saw they came to make a life for their family better than they could have had otherwise. i never been able to look at all those who come across the board illegally as place them all in the same criminal class. it just doesn't work for me.

i think for the most part, the vast majority of those who have come across simply want a better life. i think that we stand to benefit, obviously, the benefit of them and we benefit as well. host: we have the next caller from florida. caller: i appreciate you taking my call and i appreciate the senator being part of the discussion. i just want to put on the table that republicans and people that move the hatred against immigrants, they don't pay the price as we are paying. it hurts everybody who calls everybody that don't have documents illegal against the immigrants that serve them in the past.

i know people who paid the ultimate price. even though they came across the border, that is not my case -- but life changes without our expectations. we have kids. i have for american children. >guest: were they born in the u? caller: yes. guest: you said you are out of status -- does that mean? caller: we came here with a student visa. sometimes we cannot hold a university class. we get into a mode out of status. we do not have a legal status. there is no way under the current law to be legal. we do our best, we pay a lot of taxes. when we go buy a car and finance, we pay up to 30%. it is very hard with the rhetoric from the republicans,

from john mccain -- the hatred coming from romney hurts us. we do our best. we take our children to school. they pledge allegiance to the flag. it is difficult. guest: where are you from originally? caller: from brazil. guest: when you hear the term living in the shadows, have you had to do that? caller: it is the most true of our situation. we cannot call the police because the chair of -- sheriff here in my hometown -- i do not want to say the name. he is like joe r pio -- arpaio./ we cannot call him to our home because there is a threat of arresting you. my county has been a place where immigrants cannot put their faces out in the street. the point i want to make -- guest: we have to leave it

there. let's see what the senator has to say. host: andre is in a class where there are a lot more people than is realized. they came over legally and overstayed a visa. 40% of the population is undocumented now -- they did not sneak across the border, but came legally and overstayed. we need better documentation of entry and exit. that has to come with this legislation. i want to make a point -- andre talks about hatred that is out there. i think there is less of that than people think. i think people in arizona are often cast that way because arizona has been trying to deal with a problem that the federal government has simply failed at. i see a lot less of the hatred than some people do. people simply want the rule of law and want us to actually do something about this massive problem that we have.

the biggest problem is that the law does not recognize the reality that is out there. andrei has kids who are here that our citizens. there are many who are here with undocumented status that have ties that bind, and it is a very difficult situation and a complex situation, maybe more so than is realized. we simply need law that reflects reality and will bring back the rule of law. when you say that republicans have hatred or whatever, i do not buy it. we need a law that reflects reality. >host: how would your legislation, as you see it,, benefit? how does it effect andre? host: if andre has committed no felonies -- those with criminal records will not be allowed to have provisional status and day and hope to advance their status.

that if he is here and has not committed crimes, then he would be given provisional status. his children are already citizens, so there is no need there. andre would be here for maybe five to six years. then, depending on where -- he could come out of the shadows, would not have the fear of law enforcement if there is an issue in his home or elsewhere. we are trying to get people out of the shadows and not worry about deportation. people have committed crimes -- they ought to worry about deportation. but we should not allow them to advance their status. that is what we really want to do, bring people out of the shadows and have legislation that would come to law that actually reflects reality in this country and is compassionate, but also respects the rule of law. guest: what is -- host: what is

your opinion of sheriff joe arpaio? hostguest: i will not fall local officials for trying to solve a problem we have failed to deal with in washington. host: you're on with senator jeff flake of arizona. caller: thank you for your time, and thank you to c-span. i actually had a question for the earlier guest, but i would just as soon hear your comment. i want to hear how the system is broken. is it really broken, or does it just take too much time and people do not want to take the time to do that? a reference to the law and to rules -- we are a nation of law, and if we pick and choose which ones we are going to enforce and which ones we will keep, and we are not a nation of laws anymore. we need to protect that. how is that system broken?

my final comment, in general, if our nation is going to go down into troubles and -- i would rather be standing on the side of being conservative and holding some lines and not be reelected and go down in history as having taken a stand rather than just go down in history as getting along. host: thank you. let's get a response from the senator. guest: you mentioned it is broken -- i would say they are. we do not have laws that reflect reality. an example -- in 1986, some 3 million people who were here illegally were offered a path toward citizenship. 40% of them took it. but that law that was passed in 1986 was not complete. it did not foresee the labor needs that we would have in this country after that time. it did not contain a robust

temporary worker plan thereafter. it was basically thought, if we make those who are here illegally now legal then we have solved the labor problem. it did not solve the labor problem. when that law was signed, it was out of date already because we had additional labor needs that were not contemplated. the promises that were made about securing the border after that were ignored because we needed more labor. that is why we have the big problem we have today. that is why this law that we are working on now in this legislation has to include a temporary worker program sufficient to account for our labor needs. both the low skill side and the high-tech side. if we have laws that reflect reality, then it is much easier to enforce those laws. i would argue that we do have a broken system, and the first

order of business is to pass realistic legislation which we can enforce. host: a tweet in -- why does it take so long to obtain legal status? guest: a lot of people who have been waiting and are going through the legal process -- we should not allow those who have come here illegally, we should not allow them to jump in line. that is what was done in 1986. that is the definition, i believe, of amnesty. it will take a while, but we could expedite those who are coming in now legally and perhaps shorten that line, but for somebody who is here illegally now and wants to take a path to citizenship, if this legislation were to pass, i would think it would take probably 10-15 years for them to advance and become a citizen and have those responsibilities

and rights that come with citizenship. it is a long and arduous process, but it is possible. >host: good morning, you are on c-span. caller: i am a legal citizen. i am married to a us citizen. my kids are citizens. i own three houses -- one of them is not paid yet. when i came in with a visa, the fiancée visa -- she was my cousin and i had to marry after three months when i got here. we did not get married because she went back to her ex- boyfriend. she left me out of the house. what happened, i came here and

after i get married to my wife who is a citizen, they told me i have to leave the country. and i could not leave because i had just bought my first house and had my first kids. they told me i had to wait for 10 years. that is why i stayed. my house, which i've had for more than 15 years, my kids are all grown-up, all doing good, financially i'm doing fine and have no problem at all. but my father just died back home -- i could not go because i am in the goal -- illegal. i do not want to go back, because i would have to wait 10 years. host: i think we got the specifics. let's see what the senator has

to say. guest: this is a case that people sometimes will make, take a position and say we cannot let anybody who is here illegally stay. they ought to have to go home for 10 years. i can tell you, i am sure they may hold that position for everybody else, but he is a special case. he has a great family, he is doing what he should, contributing to the economy. he is a special case. i can tell you, there are a lot of special cases out there when you look at this. i think he just points out the complexity of this problem. under this legislation, it is a long path toward citizenship. i should add, those who are here and wish to stay and wish to get on that path and come out of the shadows immediately and have legal status -- they will not have to live in the shadows anymore. but these are complex situations, and what happens with everything, if you know

somebody who has the situation, they are your friend or your friend's friend, you tend to feel differently about them. that is why we have got to do this legislation and keep working. host: what has been the reaction from the conservative wing of your party? guest: by and large it has been a much better reaction, much more accommodating reaction than it has been a few years ago. i have been down this road before, pushing comprehensive legislation. in arizona we obviously have a border situation that we need to solve. that is why i am excited about this. for the first time we will have real leverage and make sure board and security -- border security happens. in arizona we have a situation we have not had before in 88 miles of our border. we have operational control.

basically, if somebody crosses illegally we have a reasonable expectation of catching them. we just do not have anything approximating that in the tucson sector, which is much of the rest of the border. if we can make the tucson sector look like the yuma sector, then we can really advance and move this legislation. i think it can be done, but it is not going to be -- as i mentioned, we have people on the border who have suffered through this for a long time, particularly the last couple of years, drug smuggling, human smuggling that has come. i'm excited that this legislation offers us the possibility to actually have a commission that has real input as as to what a secure border means. it is not, as some people assume, a way to stop this legislation or up somebody on a path to citizenship. it is just leveraged to ensure we finally do secure the border. host: if you open the border and

stop the iraq war, the border can once again be peaceful and beautiful. guest: if he is talking for a legal framework for people to work and return home as under a temporary worker program -- most of the people are here do not -- who are here do not desire citizenship. a one-two, and work and be able to return home. in previous times, when we had a legal framework, that is what we have done. we had a circular pattern of migration. now we have kind of a settled pattern. it is expensive and dangerous to cross that border. so people tend to come and stay because they cannot go back. then all the costs are incurred by arizona and elsewhere. host: what about the legalization of drugs issue? do you see change in that policy? guest: i do not and am not

advocating it. host: they tweet -- our own people have no jobs and are struggling. our country is going broke and they want to bring in more -- we cannot afford it. guest: that is a good point. we need a growing economy. i should point out the economy in mexico is growing at a pretty rapid pace, double-digit right now. our economy is struggling. there are areas in our economy where we still need help. however, on the high-tech side we have a situation where we can bring in -- we are already educating a lot of people in the stem fields in the universities and forcing them to return home when they could be here creating jobs and helping the job situation. in the agricultural sector, in yuma, arizona, you have thousands of people crossing the border every day, rear working -- working the fields and returning the field. a lot of them are american

citizens who simply live in mexico because it is cheaper. you have situations in agriculture where we still need labor. gueshost: you are on with senatr flake. caller: i have been waiting 10 minutes. i would like to say, all of us -- i am a descendent of slaves. we did not come here looking for jobs. we were brought here under an oppressive system. we came in 1619, before the pilgrims landed. people forget, they had slavery in new york and a lot of other places in the east. this was 1865 for us to get free. then we could not vote. i am from texas. host: when it comes to immigration reform now, what

would you like to see? i would like to see it happen. this country has always wanted cheap labor. let me explain something to you here in texas -- i have had fire in my house, roof repair, foundation repair, driveway repair. when i call the local company, it is a caucasian who comes out and represents the company. it is a local small business. the chamber of commerce supports. when the people who come here to do the work, are illegals, a lot of them, and i think they are because some of them cannot beat the language. but these people are making money off of these people. i think it is disgusting. i think they need to come out of the shadows and have some type of legal status.

host: thank you. guest: i agree. that is the tenor of this legislation, to get people out of the shadows and have a law that we can enforce and hold the rule of law here. host: to very quickly change the topic -- two other questions. you said on tuesday that delaying the spending cuts in the sequester for a short time only allows more time to come up with a way to avoid them altogether. when it comes to the sequester, should be be allowed to go through? guest: i would prefer to do what we did in the house twice -- legislation that says we need to be hit the spending reduction targets, but hits defense a little hard. so it ought to be done differently. but unless we are going to hit those reduction targets, we have to let it go through. host: you are on the judiciary committee -- an issue that

might be in front of you is the american airlines-u.s. airways potential merger. u.s. airways is headquartered in phoenix. guest: they had better keep those slots in the national airports so i can continue to fly direct. i am pretty parochial as far as that is concerned. but u.s. airways has been great for the state and great for maricopa county. i do not want to get in the middle of that. host: do you think the judiciary committee will have to look at it? it depends on how it is structured. i am sure taking that into account. there are good people involved in negotiations. i will let them finish their work. host: at this point, would you support it? guest: yes. i think everybody is negotiating in good faith. host: i last call comes from st. paul, minnesota on are a legal immigrants line. good morning. you are on c-span. caller: good morning.

host: tell us your story. caller: my question -- some comments, and then a question. for someone who is a legal, -- illegal, who comes to this country thinking about working and has four kids, my oldest one is eight years old -- 18 years old. she needs to go to congress. i do not know -- college. i do not know how we can have college for her. i have been not given jobs many times because i do not have documents -- i do not have social security. i worked for nine years and they kicked me out from the job because they asked me for social security. they told me, either go to the social security office and ask them for a social security

because many people in this country have no idea how to get on social security. my question is, after i was kicked from the job many times, and now preparing for immigration reform, they think you have to pay fines, pay back taxes, which i do not know what they are talking about because you are paying tax on your check -- then they kick you from the job many times. when will they have the money to pay the fines they are talking about? host: where are you from originally? >> from cape verde. i, on a tourist visa. host: and state -- was that your

intention when you came over? were you planning on just staying once you got in? guest caller: no. after the visa -- i hold my visa for at least two months and then had a job there. at the time they were reforming the system, the politics system , and then we got into democracy. they had to privatize the companies. i was working at a company for a long time and i was kicked from the job because they were reforms when they privatized. they gave options to the people to leave because they had to indemnifies -- indemnifies them.

host: we have to leave it there, but we appreciate it. another variation. guest: he was advocating that there be no fines for back taxes. i'm sorry sorry -- we cannot do that. there has to be a penalty or it would be an amnesty, and we are not going to do an amnesty. we will try to make people right with the law and make people be able to come out of the shadows. it may be difficult and might not be possible for some to come up with the money for a final back taxes, but there has to be a penalty, and that is recognized by everyone. host: we do have one last call -- on a republican line. caller: good morning, senator. first of all, i am not a racist and do not have a problem with immigration. what i do have a problem is when i go to the grocery store or anybody else -- they are standing there.

you have a food stamp in spanish at the end of the cast register, and they go outside and get the brand-new dodge durango and drive it out. what is the deal with this? we are paying their way, they are driving new cars. the guys i talked to -- they're living five people in a basement behind a tarp on a mattress, on a floor, and you think they are in the shadows? they are working every day. get out of the office of there and go have a look. thank you. i am not sure if the are on undocumented status. if they are they should not be if we have a lovely can enforce, it is easier to catch situations like this. -- if we have a lot we can enforce it is easier to catch

situations like this. sometimes we let people who speak a different language in the the same category and that is dangerous to do. host: have you gone on patrol with the border control? guest: i have. host: what is that like? guest: sometimes with the border patrol, sometimes unannounced or with a local sheriff. i have seen it in a variety of situations. i can tell you, for those who live on the border, those who have property there, the ranchers in particular in that situation, they are worried. we have -- had a murder of a rancher just two years ago. there is a justifiable fear that unless we get better border security, that their lives are risk. their property is certainly at risk. we do not have a secure border yet. it is better, we have more officers with better technology, better barriers, but we are still not there. so we need more. >host: finally, no chance the

democrats will make any deal that improves the wave -- wages panics the republicans. guest: that may be a cynical way to look at it. i can tell you there are a number of democrats who want to do this for the right reasons. that reflects the position of those who were in this group. there may be some who wanted just for political purposes, but we will assume the best and move ahead. host: senator jeff flake, republican of arizona, thank you for being here. [captioning performed bynational captioning institute][captions copyright nationalcable satellite corp. 2013]>> tomorrow we talk about al jazeera's new english channel. the inspector general for the troubled asset relief program questions about her criticism of the treasury department for approving excessive pay for executives at firms that received taxpayer bailouts

during the financial crisis. we will also discuss a report that concludes that americans die sooner and at higher rates of disease then people in other high income countries. dr. steven wolfe, director of the virginia commonwealth university center on human needs. washington journal, live every day at seven o'clock -- seven: 00 eastern. outgoing defense ceremony -- secretary leon panetta is being honored tomorrow. they will speak about his time as the nation's 23rd defense secretary. live on c-span at 3:45 tomorrow afternoon. today, secretary canada and the chairman of the joints chiefs testified about the attack on the us on slip in benghazi, libya. here is some of secretary panetta's opening statement. >> on that tragic day, as

always, the department of defense was prepared for a wide range of contingencies. i will just remind you that the and ctc -- nctc, six months prior to the attack, identified 280 threats to us diplomats, diplomatic facilities, embassies, ambassadors, and consulates worldwide and obviously benghazi was one of those almost 300 areas of concern. but unfortunately, there was no specific intelligence or indications of imminent attack on the us facility in benghazi. without an adequate warning, there was not enough time, given the speed of the attack, four armed military assets to respond.

that is not just my view or gender dempsey's view. it was the view of the accountability review board that studied what happened on that day. in the months and the tragedy, at the temporary mission facility in the nearby annex in benghazi, we have learned there were actually two short duration attacks that occurred is six hours apart. again, there was no specific intelligence that indicated that a second attack would occur at the annex located two miles away. the bottom line is this -- we were not dealing with a prolonged or continuous assault which could have been brought to win end by us military response. although we had forces deployed to the region.

time, distance, a lack of an adequate warning, even said moved very quickly on the ground, prevented a more immediate response. >> tonight we will show you that hearing in its entirety, beginning at 8:00 eastern on the c-span2. >> there is no prescription or role model or cookbook for being first lady. if you look back at the lives of martha washington or abigail adams or dolly madison or edith wilson or eleanor roosevelt or maybe eisenhower, you can see that each woman has defined the role in a way that is true to herself. how she can help her husband take care of her family, make your contribution to our nation. >> c-span's new original series

-- their public and private lives, interest, and influences on the president through 44 administrations. produced with the historical association. serious -- season one begins presidents' day on c-span, c- span radio, and c-span.org. >> what i have discovered as i got older and more mature is that the absolute worst strategy to achieve happiness in life is to make that your primary goal. if you make happiness when you are striving for, you will not achieve it. instead you will end up being narcissistic and self involved, caring about your own pleasures and your own satisfactions in life as your paramount goal. what i have found is that happiness is best thought of as a byproduct of other things. it is a byproduct of meaningful work, and family, and friends, and good health, and love, and

care. we get happiness not by aiming directly for it, but by throwing ourselves into life project involving ourselves and fundamentally trying to have integrity and be a good person. >> the whole foods cofounder and ceo examines how the inherent good of business and capitalism can lead to a better world. sunday night on 9:0 zero on c- span. find more book tv online -- like us on facebook. >> now, some of this morning's national prayer breakfast in washington. we will hear from pediatric bureau surgeon benjamin carson. >> thank you so much. mr. president, mr. vice president, ms. obama, distinguished guests, which includes everybody. thank you so much for this

wonderful honor to be at this stage. again, i was here 16 years ago, and the fact they have invited me back means i did not offend too many people. that is great. i want to start by reading for texts that will put into context what i have to say. proverbs 11:9 -- the godless destroys his neighbor, but through knowledge the righteous escapes. proverbs 11:12 -- the man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. proverbs 11:20 5 -- a generous man will prosper. he refreshes others with himself -- who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. if my people who are called by my name will foll and pray and n from their wicked ways, then we

will forgive their sins. i had an opportunity to speak at a lot of venues. this is my fourth speech this week. i have an opportunity to talk to a lot of people. i have been asking people what concerns you, what are you most concerned about in terms of the spirituality and the direction of our nation and our world? i have talked to very prominent democrats, very prominent republicans, and i was surprised by the uniformity of their answers. those have informed my comments this morning. it is not my intention to offend anyone. i have discovered, however, in recent years that it is difficult to speak to a large group of people and not offend someone. people walk around with

feelings on their shoulders, waiting for you to say something -- did you hear that? and they cannot hear anything else you say. the pc police are out in force at all times. i was talking to a group about a difference between a human brain and a dog brain. a man got offended -- you cannot talk about a dog brain. [laughter]he focused in on that and completely missed the point of what you were saying. point whered a people are afraid to talk about what they want to say because somebody might be offended. people are afraid to say merry christmas at christmas time. it does not matter whether the person is jewish or whether they are any religion. that is a salutation, a greeting of goodwill. we have got to get over this sensitivity. it keeps people from saying what they really believe. i am reminded of a successful young businessman.

he loved to buy his mother exotic gifts for mother's day and ran out of ideas. then he ran across these birds. they cost $5,000 apiece, they could dance, they could sing, they could talk. he bought two of them and send them to his mother, could not wait to call him. what did you think of those birds? she said, they were good. [laughter]he said, no, no, you did not eat those birds. they cost $5,000 -- they could dance, sing, talk. she said, they should have said something. [laughter]that is where we end up to if we do not speak up for what we believe. what we need to do -- [applause]what we need to do in this pc world is forget about

unanimity of speech and unanimity of thought. we need to concentrate on being respectful to those people with whom we disagree. that is when we begin to make real progress. one last thing about political correctness, which i think is a horrible thing, by the way. i am very, very compassionate, and i am not ever out to offend anyone, but pc is dangerous. this country, one of the founding principles, freedom of thought and freedom of expression. it puts a muzzle on them. and at the same time, keeps people from discussing important issues well the fabric of their society is being changed. we cannot fall for that trick. what we need to do is start talking about things, things that are important.

things that were important in the development of our nation. one of those things was education. i am very passionate about education because it made such a big difference in my life, but here we are at a time in the world, the information age, the age of technology, and yet 30% of people who enter high school in this country do not graduate. 44% of people who start a four- year college program do not finish it in four years. what is that about? think back to a darker time in our history, 200 years ago, when slavery was going on. it was illegal to educate a slave, particularly to teach them to read. why do you think that was? because when you educate a man, you liberate a man. there i was as a youngster,

lacing myself in the same situation because i was not taking advantage of the education. i was a horrible student. my classmates thought i was the stupidest person in the world. i was the butt of all the jokes. admittedly, it was a bad environment. my mother and father had gotten divorced. she was one of 24 children, had a horrible life. discovered that her husband was a bigamist, had another family. she only had a third-grade education. she had to take care of us in dire poverty. all horrible temper, poor self- esteem, all the things you think would preclude success. but i had something very important. i had a mother who believed in me. i had a mother who would never allow herself to be a victim, no matter what happened. never made excuses, and never

accepted an excuse from us. if we ever came up with an excuse, she always said, do you have a brain? if the answer was yes, she said, you can sort your way out of it. it does not matter what anybody else did or said. it was the most important thing she did for my brother and myself. if you do not accept excuses, pretty much be -- pretty soon people stop giving them and start looking for solutions. that is a critical issue when it comes to success. well, we did live in dire poverty, and one of the things that i hated was poverty. some people hate spiders, some people hate snakes. i hated poverty. i could not stand it. but my mother could not stand the fact that we were doing poorly in school. she prayed and asked god to give her wisdom. what could she do to get her young sons do understand the importance of developing their

minds so they can control their own lives? god gave her the wisdom, at least in her opinion. my brother and i did not think it was that wise. it was to turn off the tv and let is only watch two or three programs during the week and with all that spare time read two books apiece and submit to her written book reports, which we could not read but she did not know that. -- we did not know that. [laughter]but i just hated this. my friends were out having a good time. they would say, you cannot make toys stay -- boys stay in the house reading books. they will grow up and hate you. i said, you know they are right, but she did not care. after a while i actually began to enjoy reading those books. we were very poor, but between the covers of those books i could go anywhere, be anybody, do anything. i began to read about people of a, schmidt. as i read those stories, i began to see a connecting thread.

i began to see that the person who has the most to do with what happens to you in life is you. you make decisions. you decide how much energy you want to put behind that decision. i came to understand that i had control of my own destiny, and at that point i did not hate poverty anymore, because i knew it was temporary. i knew i could change that. it was incredibly liberating for me. it made all the difference. to continue on that theme of education, in 1831, alexis de tocqueville came to america. europeans were fascinated -- how could a fledgling nation already be competing with them on virtually every level? this is impossible. tocqueville was going to sort it out. he looked at our government and was duly impressed by the three branches of government. now because of special

interest groups, but it was only three in those days. he said wow, this is really something. let me look at their educational system. he was blown away. anybody finishing the second grade was completely literate. he could find a mountain man on the outskirts of society who could read to the newspaper and have a political discussion, tell them how the government works. if you really want to be impressed, take a look at the chapter on education. my latest book, "america the beautiful", which i wrote with my wife. it came out last year. in that education chapter you will see questions extracted from a sixth-grade exit exam from the 1800s. a test you had to have to get your sixth-grade certificate. i doubt most college graduates today could pass that test. we have dumb things down to that level. the reason that is so dangerous is because the people who have heard -- fathered this nation

said that our system of government was designed for a well-informed and educated populace. when they become less informed, they become vulnerable. think about that. our system of government -- that is why our education is so vitally important. some people say you were overblowing it, things are not that bad. and you're a dr. and a neurosurgeon. why are you concerned about these things? i have news for you. five doctors signed the declaration of independence. doctors were involved in the framing of the constitution, the bill of rights. it is only in recent decades that we have distract -- extracted ourselves, which i think is a mistake. we need scientists and engineered it -- engineers involved in government. not just lawyers. i have nothing against lawyers, but i have to be truthful. [laughter]what do lawyers learn

in law school? to win by hook or by crook. you have to win. you have all these democrat lawyers and republican lawyers, and both side wants to win death -- both sides want to win. we have to start thinking, how do we solve problems? [applause]before i get shot, let me finish here. [laughter]i do not like to bring up problems without solutions. my wife and i started the carson scholars fund is 16 years ago after we heard about a survey, international survey looking at the ability of eighth graders in 22 countries to solve math and science problems. we came out number 22 -- 21, barely beat out 22. we would see allstate basketball, all-state wrestling,

the quarterback is the big man on campus. what about the intellectual superstar? what do they get? the national honor decided pain? a pat on the head, there, there, little nerd. nobody cares about us. is there any wonder that these markets try to hide and do not want to be better? this is not helping us as a nation. we started giving out scholarships to students from all backgrounds with superior academic performance and demonstration of humanitarian qualities. unless you cared about other people, it did not matter how smart you were. we do not need those. we need smart people who care about other people. the money would go into a trust that would get interest when they went to college -- they would get the money. also, the school gets a trophy. every bit as impressive as the sports trophies, right out there. they get a medal, they get to go to a banquet. we try to put them on the same

kind of pedestal we do to all- state athletes. i have nothing against athletics or entertainment. please believe me. i am from baltimore. the ravens won. this is great. but what will maintain our position in the world? the ability to shoot a 25 foot jump shot or the ability to solve an equation? we need to put things into proper perspective. [applause]many teachers have told us, when we put a carson scholar in their classroom, the gpa of the whole class goes up. it has been very gratifying. we started 16 years ago with 25 scholarships in maryland. now we have given out more than 5000 in all 50 states. we also put in reading rooms. these are fascinating places that no little kid could pass up. they get points for the amount of time they spend in the reading room, the number of books they read, and they can trade them in for prizes.

in the beginning they do it for the prizes, but it is not long before their academic performance begins to improve. we target title i schools where kids come from homes with no books and go to schools with no libraries. those are the ones who drop out. we need to truncate that process early on because we cannot afford to waste any of those young people. for every one of those people that we keep from going down that path of self-destruction and mediocrity, that is one less person you have to protect yourself and your family from, one less person you have to pay for in the penal or the welfare system, one more taxpaying productive member of society who may invent a new energy source or come up with a cure for cancer. they are all important. we need every single one of them. [applause]when you go home tonight, please read about it -- the carson scholars fund.

why is it so important that we educate people? because we do not want to go down the same pathway as many other nations who have preceded us. i think particularly about ancient rome. a very powerful. nobody could even challenge the militarily. but what happens to them? they destroy themselves from within. moral decay, fiscal irresponsibility, they destroy themselves. if you do not think that can happen to america, you get out your books and start reading. you know, we can fix it. why can we fix it? because we are smart. we have some of the most intellectually gifted people leading our nation. all we need to do is remember what our real responsibilities are so we can solve problems.

i think about these problems all the time. my role model was jesus. he used parables to help people understand things. and one of our big problems right now, and like i said, i am not politically correct, so i'm sorry. the deficit is a big problem. think about it. our national debt, $16.5 trillion. you think that is not a lot of money? count one number per second -- one number per second. how long will it take you to count to 16 trillion? 500-7000 years. -- 500-7000 -- 5700 years. here is a parable -- a family lands on hard times.

the father comes to the five children and says, we will have to reduce your allowance. they are not happy about it, but he says, except for johnny and susan, they are special. they get to keep their allowance. in fact, we might give them more. how do you think that will go down? not too well. same thing happens. what about our taxation system? so complex, there is no one who can possibly comply with every tax issue. if i want to get you, i can get you on a tax issue. that does not make any sense. what we need to do is come up with something that is simple. when i pick up my bible, you know what i see? i see the fairest individual in the universe, god, giving us a system. called tight. we do not necessarily have to do it at 10%, but the principle.

he did not say, if your crops failed to not give me any type of -- tithe/ he did not say if you have a bumper crop give me triple t ithe. there must be something there about proportionality. you have to get rid of the loopholes. [applause] some people say, that is not fair. it does not hurt the guy who made $10 billion is much as the guy who made 1000 -- the guy just put $1 billion in the pot. you do not need to hurt bad. that kind of thinking, that kind of thinking has resulted in 602 banks in the cayman islands. that money needs to be back here building our infrastructure and creating jobs. we are smart enough to figure out how to do that. we have already started down the path to solving the other big problems. health care -- we need to have good health care for everybody. it is the most important thing a

person can have. money means nothing, titles mean nothing when you do not have your health. we have to figure out efficient ways to do it. we spend a lot of money on healthcare. twice as much per capita as anybody else in the world. yet not very efficient. what can we do? here's my solution. when a person is born, give them a birth certificate, an electronic medical medical record, and a health savings account. to which money can be contributed pre-tax from the time you are born until the time you die. when you die you can pass it onto your family members so that when you're you're 85 years old and have six diseases you are not trying to spend up everything. you are happy to pass it on and there is nobody talking about that. number one. also, for people who are indigent, we can make contributions to their hsa because we already have this huge pot of money. instead of putting it in a

bureaucracy, let's put it in their hsa. now they have some control over their healthcare. what do you think they will do? they will learn quickly how to be responsible. when he is a diabetic also, he is not going to the emergency room and blowing a big chunk -- he will go to the clinic. he learns that quickly. it's the same treatment. they say, let's get your diabetes under control so you are not back here in three weeks with another problem. that is how we begin to solve these kinds of problems. it is much more complex than that and do not have time to go into it, but we can do all these things because we are smart people. let me just begin to close here with another parable. a sea captain is in -- on the senior where the titanic went down. there is a bright light right there -- another ship. he tells his signaler, signal that ship, deviate 10 degrees to the south. back comes the message -- no,

you dba 10 degrees to the north. he is a little bit incensed. he says, send a message, this is captain john, deviate 10 degrees to the north. back comes the message, this is anderson fourth class riley. dba 10 degrees to the south. -- deviate 10 degrees to the south. he says, this is a naval destroyer. back comes the message, this is a lighthouse. [laughter]i'm not sad. -- enough said. what about the symbol of our nation, the eagle? an interesting story how we that.e's

a lot of people think week i'll be bald eagle because it has a bald head -- that is not the reason. it comes from the old english word highball, which means crowned with white. -- piebald, which means crowned with white. why is that eagle able to fly high? because it has two wings. a left-wing and a right wing. [laughter]enough said. i want to close with this story. 200 years ago, this nation was involved in a war, the war of 1812. the british, who are now our good friends, thought that we were young whippersnappers and it was time for us to become a colony again. they were winning the war, marching up the eastern seaboard, destroying city after city. earned down the white house, next up baltimore.

as they came into the chesapeake bay, the armada of warships as far as the eye can see, it was looking grim. fort mchenry standing right there. general armistead was in charge of fort mckendry. he had a large american flag commissioned to fly in front of the fort. the admiral in charge of the british fleet was offended and said, take that flag down, you have until dusk to take the flag down. if you do not, we will reduce you -- is -- reduce you to ashes. there was a young amateur poet on board all francis scott key, sent to try to obtain the release of an american edition held captive. he overheard the british plan. he mourned as dusk approached, mourned for his fledgling young nation.

as the sun fell, the bombardment started. bombs bursting in air, so much debris he strained trying to see, but the flag was still there. he could not see a thing all night long. at the crack of dawn he ran out and looked, straining his eyes. all he could see was dust and debris. then there was a clearing, and he beheld the most beautiful sight he had ever seen, the torn and tattered stars & stripes still waving. many historians say that was the turning point in the war of 1812. we went on to win that war and retain our freedom. if you had gone to the ground of fort mchenry that day, you would have seen at the base of that flag the bodies of soldiers who took turns propping up that flag. they would not have a go down because they believed in what that flag symbolized.

what did it symbolize? one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. thank you. god bless. [applause] >> tonight on c-span, the senate confirmation hearing for cia director nominee john brennan. later, president obama discusses the agenda for his second term at a gathering of house democrats. >> before we get to our first program, here is a look at program, here is a look at another capital